078: Growth Strategies for Business
Michele (0:01) With us today is Jessica Williamson owner of JTW Design. Jessica graduated from the Virginia Polytechnic Institute and then spent the next 10 years working alongside many of the world's top commercial designers and architects at Gensler in Washington DC. In 2010, she launched JTW design, where she now offers residential design in the Virginia area. Jessica is sharing a business challenge with us today focused on company growth. Her business has been steadily growing and she's feeling pressure to grow more. We unravel some of the feelings and expectations that she feels like is on top of her so that she can make a plan to move forward and grow in a way that is true and authentic to her and her team. And that results in the best offerings for her clients.
Michele (1:36) Hey, Jessica, welcome to the podcast.
Jessica (1:37) Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to chat with you today.
Michele (1:40) I'm excited to have you too. And this is your first podcast ever. Right?
Jessica (1:45) It is. I am a newbie. This is my very first debut.
Michele (1:49) All right, it's gonna be amazing. Amazing. I just know it. And so Jessica, you are on today as part of our business challenge series. And so before we jump in what the challenges, tell us a little bit about your business, how long you've been in business, kind of what your setup looks like. So it kind of sets the stage when we jump into the challenge will kind of know where it all fits.
Jessica (2:11) Gotcha. So I own a boutique design firm that is full-service kind of go soup to nuts. I like to say all the way from plans to the vase that you might have on your console, we like to be heavily involved in our projects, but we don't have to do full service on every single project. I have a background in commercial interior design, I studied at Virginia Tech and then spent 10 years working in DC with an international design firm, who I absolutely loved and soaked up about as much knowledge as I possibly could about the construction industry and how to work with clients and all of that. And then when I wanted to have a family I decided to transition over to residential which was kind of always my goal and aspirations from when I was even a little girl in fourth grade on. So I've been in business by myself for about 10 years. And right now we have a team of three. Me and two Junior designers working pretty much every day. So that's a little bit about us.
Michele (3:13) What area do you serve Jessica?
Jessica (3:17) I'm in the Richmond, Virginia area, and we serve some clients in Texas and Georgia and Maryland as well.
Michele (3:26) Okay. All right, great. Okay, so you've come from commercial to residential. I'm sure you probably started alone. And now you have a team of three. Your business is growing and moving and shifting and with that comes challenges, right.
Jessica (3:44) Absolutely.
Michele (3:45) Tell us a little bit about the business challenges you're facing right now.
Jessica (3:49) So right now, my biggest challenge is trying to decide how much to grow and grow in my understanding has more multiple facets, it is its spatial growth. Currently, I run my business out of my home, which is great because I can, it can be accessible to me at all times, which can also be a little bit of a negative. So I'm trying to understand if living outside of my home is the right choice for me, you know, I do have two Junior designers who come into my home four days a week. So we're pretty much maxed out in my office right now. So that's definitely something I'm trying to decide from a team perspective, team growth, and then just growing how many clients we want to take on, and how then we want to spread ourselves. We've been blessed with a lot of repeat work, we have clients come back to us all the time. And we've been blessed with a lot of really good full-scale projects in the last year so trying to understand how to filter those projects through our calendar and make sure that we're staying productive, successful growing and all of that and really how to how to manage all of that. So I would say spatial growth, team growth as well as project growth. So a lot of growth questions.
Michele (5:08) Okay, I'm sitting here like scribbling notes while we're talking. So it's not only the growth of those things but how to manage it. I remember talking to my sons about growing my company. And I remember one of them asked me, I can't remember, I think it was my oldest. And he asked me, “Mom, how big is big enough? Like, when are you done? Like, whenever you're gonna say, I'm going to maintain?” Because I'm constantly trying, of course, it doesn't help in that regard that my number one strength on Strengths Finder as Maximizer and achiever which makes them always growing something even an idea. But his question was when is enough, enough? And I thought that was a really insightful question to ask. So we'll dig into that as we move through. Now. It's not the time but that is an interesting one. What is enough and maybe not enough forever, but enough for the season that you're in? And, Jessica, you're a mom.
Jessica (6:07) I am I have two kids, both in elementary school.
Michele (6:10) Okay. And so we have to take into account this growth model with also, maybe what you want and need as far as time and availability to your family. For your two Junior designers do they have families that they need to plan around or workaround as well?
Jessica (6:33) They do. And I've really worked hard to maintain their hours in the office to not push them beyond those hours having come from commercial design, where 40 hours was the minimum. So I remember thinking to myself, I'm not gonna be able to keep this job if I move and have a family. So I don't want that for them. I want to make sure that I can be respectful of their time and their needs as well as I try to be respectful of my own.
Michele (7:02) Yeah, no, I understand that. So what is a workweek look like for you and your team?
Jessica (7:08) So as I had mentioned before, we're in the office, Monday through Thursday, the hours are nine to four. I have tried to maintain Mondays as in-office days for myself. I think that's one of the hardest things for me to maintain. But I have worked really hard to do that. Having FaceTime with them is so crucial. But I also go away on Tuesdays through Thursdays to have meetings with clients and build the business and all of those good things to allow them to be able to grow and give them more uptime. So they're in the office Monday through Thursday, I'm in the office Monday through Friday. Fridays, I try to have as my in-office days as well just by myself, and that is for the invoicing and the catching up and the drawing and heads down focus time and that's harder to keep them the Mondays, to be honest with because lots of clients like to meet on Fridays, and unfortunately, I look at it as a catch-all day. So sometimes I'm a little more relaxed about things well, okay, but I know in my heart, I shouldn't do that. But you know, I'm a people pleaser. So yeah, I like to say as much as I can, but I have tried to maintain the structure as best I can.
Michele (8:22) So your team works somewhere between 24 and 28 hours. Right? And yours is the extra day assuming you try to get off on Friday around four or a little earlier. I almost can say 24 to 28 because we got lunches thrown in there, right?
Jessica (8:38) Well, they probably work right through lunch.
Jessica (8:40) Here we are heads down. They literally soak as much time up in the office being productive as they can. And I keep saying y'all can take a break. You can absolutely take it. No, no, it's good. We're fine.
Michele (8:56) Right, and I get it. We all put our heads down and just get the job done. But okay.
Jessica (9:00) That's right.
Michele (9:01) So there's somewhere I mean, they're not quite all the way up at 30 to 40 hours. But these are very productive four days, nine to four.
Jessica (9:09) That's right.
Michele (9:10) Okay. All right, just trying to understand. So when we start thinking about growth, let me ask you this. Are you open to working long hours during the day? Or more days in the week? Or is that not an option?
Jessica (9:28) So, right now, that's not an option. I'm a solo parent. During the week, my husband travels and it's important for me to put my kids on the bus, get my kids off the bus and that's the nine to four. And you know, I do have one of my junior designers doing a few hours here and there on Fridays as necessary. But they also have a rigorous home life and they also have a lot going on. And I kind of feel like having that this day, if we had a photo shoot. They would come in and work if we had something going on that they would come in and work, I almost kind of would rather that be a flex day that if we need it, they're open to it.
Michele (10:09) Okay.
Jessica (10:09) We don't need it on an average it's not happening. I do a ton of work at night too. So my hours are not nine to four, they're nine to four-plus, nine to 10 or nine to 12 or 9 till 2.
Michele (10:21) Yeah, Okay. It just helps us as we start thinking about this growth model, where are the boundaries for where we can push?
Jessica (10:31) That's right.
Michele (10:32) And so we'll dig into that. So in a perfect world, and I'm gonna say, Jessica, for the season that you're in, you know, I've shared on the podcast multiple times and coaching experiences. I started my business when my kids were really, really little, you know, like two and five. I mean, they were tiny. And at the time, I remember I only work during Mother's Morning Out. I worked when they were in preschool. I worked it after they went to bed at night. So my hours were scattered and shorter, which meant I had to be super intentional about cranking. I did work some weekends when my husband was home to be with him. He and I just did a podcast and we were talking about that. And then as they grew my days, my time got more, I would say, push together, right? It wasn't so scattered. So I was like, I remember it being I think I'm this like, I could work from 830 until about 130. Because elementary went to school so early, and then it shifted like nine to something in middle school and then High School, it shifted again until now they're all grown and either getting ready to graduate from college out of the house. Everybody works full time. And so I can work as much and as long as I want to. So there are seasons in our life. And I'm not saying everybody has to follow that same path. Some people go ahead and do their 40-50 hours right upfront at the very beginning. So I just really kind of wanted to understand what yours might look like. And being the primary parent during the week changes things you need to have the time with your family. So in a perfect world for this season that you're in knowing that... let me back up before asked that question. When do you say you want to talk about how much to grow? Is it because you are feeling like you should grow? Right? Or is it because opportunities are coming at you that you can't currently take? And you're having to put them back? And I asked that because with social media, a lot of people are feeling this need to grow when maybe everything around them is going I don't want to grow. So are you feeling? Is it really a pressure to grow? Or are you really in a good place?
Jessica (12:55) So that's a perfect question, to be honest with you. And I've asked myself that same question before, and I think it's probably twofold, I would say that I do feel the pressure to grow the caliber of the projects that we're taking on the work that I feel like we're able to put out there into the world. I'm really, really proud of it. And I'm at that point where I want to say, this is what we're doing. I want to market more of what we're doing. I'm right now doing only marketing on Instagram. I mean, that's the only way I market. It's great. It's been successful, but I'm doing it also myself. So it's inconsistent, right? But I know that I would love to be able to put my work more out there to be able to hit a different audience or you know, grow the audience that I currently have, whatever it is, my fear in doing that is if I start to put myself out there more, market myself more, there will be a level of growth potential that I would not be able to take on in the structure that I'm in right now. And so I think that, am I happy right now with the hours that we're working? 100%. Do I feel like I met my max in where we are right now? 100%. But I also feel really good about the projects we're working on right now. So I'm very much like you when my kids were really, really little I worked during that time. I very, very, very slowly grew this business.
I've been in business for almost 10 years. But really, I've only been in business for four, because my son started kindergarten when he started preschool, I guess more full time. I did hire a nanny. And so I had more of like two kids in kindergarten at that time. And so I was able to grow it very slowly, to begin with, and then it just took off and that's when the growth pattern happens. So I'm very happy with where I am. But I also have noticed that there's been this pattern of growth. And so I think I'm also like, just kind of keeping the ball rolling. Right. But I'm fearful that if I don't grow, and I say no to those opportunities, then maybe I'll kind of get left behind. Right. And I know that that sounds probably silly. But that's kind of how I feel a little bit. Or if I'm not putting the work out there that we're so proud of, then, am I falling short of potential. And I think that that's probably where I fit. In loving the level of projects that we're doing right now, the trust, and really, it's not even just the level of the projects. It's the trust that we've garnered with our clients, with the industry with our target market. It really has been incredible lately, wanting to hold on to that and grow that and not being able to verses, not being able to showcase our work the way that I feel like we should at this point. Does that make sense? I
Michele (15:52) It does. It does. And that's what I was starting to feel. So I'm glad that I asked that question right. I think there's something to dig into on the fear of being left behind. I think part of social media has created that this fear of, we're not enough. This fear of being left behind that everybody is zooming around you, this fear of we are supposed to be growing, even if maybe you're not supposed to be growing in that way. There are multiple ways to grow. Right? I remember one year, my goal was to make the same amount of money and work half of the time, best growth, but that's not growth and taking on more and more and more, that's more of internal growth. And I did that Jessica was the idea that the next year, I wanted to have the capacity. So when you tell me that you've reached a capacity of the employee, right or of the team member, you've reached a capacity of time on the calendar, yet you're feeling a need to grow I would say let's talk for a minute about what that really might be. Because there, there are a couple of things that I'm already thinking all the right things and we'll dig into them as we keep moving. But one of the things I'm thinking is do you really need to grow in the way you think you do? Is this really about being recognized more in your community versus growth, to different things? But we sometimes think that being recognized and getting a certain level of job is growing, but may not be growth, it may be pivoting to the jobs that I now have, like, let's say maybe at the beginning of this year, or even last year, you accepted jobs that are no longer your ideal. So maybe the growth is not to take on more work, but to take on more of the better work and less of the nonaligned work that maybe was aligned in the last one to two years but is not now. Right? It's kind of like when I first started, I would be willing To go in and do a Wednesday, Tuesday, yes,
I'll come in and do pillows for you Yes, I'll come in and do accessorizing, this little thing for you. And in the end, it was like, if I don't get the whole house, I'm not coming in. I'm not saying that to brag the way we all do that to some degree, but you start to up-level your offerings, which then means you actually, from a project base may take on fewer projects, but from the growth of numbers may be higher. It also may be that we take a look at what you're doing. And so 2020, let's say it is going to be a year of growth, but not in taking on more projects and maxing us out if we're at 100% and stressing us out. But the growth is going to be internal. How do we streamline that process even more? How do we get it down so that it takes less time so that then we have capacity again, like if you're hitting the max of capacity for people in numbers in space, and you're still bursting at the seams, we either have to make a conscious choice to add more capacity, either in time or in energy when people or we have to create more capacity by streamlining more processes. Do you see what I'm saying?
Jessica (19:15) I do.
Michele (19:15) And so I made the decision. Because I knew number one, I had some things I needed to take care of in my family that year. And that was why I needed to cut the time back. So I didn't have the same amount of time that I had the year before, to earn the same amount of money, but I needed to bring the same amount of money in at the time. My youngest son had been diagnosed with dyslexia, and I need to stop and focus on him after school. So where I normally could have them come in, sit down to the homework, and I could work a couple more hours. All of that was gone. I now was showing up with tutors. I was now showing up in the school system in ways that I hadn't shown up before. I hadn't had to, I now had a part-time job as an advocate for my son. And it took up an enormous amount of energy. Okay, and so with that, I didn't want to lose my business, I didn't want to quit it, I knew that there would be an opportunity for me to come back to it, and to build it. So I kept thinking of growth and scaling, if you will, in a different way. So now we're maybe I had 30 hours a week, while the kids were at school. I got 20 hours a week and no time after work. But I got to make the same amount. How do I do that? What process? That is huge, because now the next year when I got him into private school, and they took care of all of the stuff that I'd been doing, and the year before, I now all of a sudden, instead of 20 hours I'm back to 30 to 35. But now I can have explosive growth, is that an option that you'd be willing to look at? Managing more internally some pieces to allow you to then have maybe I'm not gonna say better projects, but equal projects to some of the best ones that you're loving wrapping your arms around, right more like how do we get more of those and streamline that's growth.
Jessica (21:13) I think that's an excellent point. And I think that's where, why I haven't jumped to grow because I felt like I'm not being as efficient in some of the systems and some of them, the things that I'm having my team do. I'm a gatekeeper, obviously, for a lot of things. And I'm happy about is that gatekeeper. But I do know that there are things that I am doing that I don't need to be doing.
And so being able to manage better people's time or outsource something that I don't have to be doing is probably a way to manage the growth level that I'm at right now, and I think it'll just clean up the process for the next project as well. And I think that that's where I'm like, Okay, it's time to clean up a little bit. I've been growing and growing and growing and building and building and building, and now I'm at capacity. And unless I want to move out of my house, which I'm trying to figure all that out, and what makes sense and do I need to move, I have to if I want to grow this, this extra person needs to be an on a team member, all those things.
Michele (22:35) Right?
Jessica (22:36) To move out of my house, I need to clean up first, I need to understand all my financials, and I need to understand how much time is being spent on X, Y, and Z, both for myself, for each of my team members, and where am I really putting my efforts because although I really love the big projects, I love the projects where we can really dive in and we have that full level of trust in there full scale. I also really love working with our past clients who have complete trust in us and have grown and have said, You know what, we now want you to do this. And it might not be a huge project, but I love working with them so much that they become part of our JW family. Right. And it's and I don't want to be able to, I don't want to have to say no to that client, just because we're at capacity. And so I think for me, it's managing the growth potential while still being able to keep clients moving that we love working with and I know it's not so much...
Michele (23:38) And keeping your family boundaries, we're also keeping...
Jessica (23:40) And keeping family boundaries. Yeah.
Michele (23:42) Keeping family boundaries, and you know, you're not a one or two-dimensional person and so keeping that up. So all right, if you were to imagine in a perfect world, and I'm not talking about for long term growth here, okay Jessica. I'm talking about what you might envision as the one next step. What would that ideal version of your business be for the one next growth step that you might think? Oh, I see your face grunting out there?
Jessica (24:17) That's a tough question. Because I don't know. I mean...
Michele (24:21) Personally, as we just described growth in 14 ways, right?
Jessica (24:24) That's right. I mean, I would say...
Michele (24:27) Then give me two or three ideas.
Jessica (24:29) Okay. So I would say maybe my team members a more autonomy, right. Which is tricky, because I'm still mentoring them as well. Right. Yeah. I have definitely segue them from interacting with clients a lot more, which has been great. But not all clients are receptive to that, some clients just want to hear from me, and that's totally fine. I respect that. So I would say, maybe a little bit more autonomy, like maybe...
Michele (24:58) So growth.
Jessica (24:59) They're doing A little bit more, yeah, growth. They've grown tremendously. And they have a lot more capacity to grow. I know that. But I also want to give them enough tools so that they are not floundering. I don't want to do it, because that just creates inefficiency. So I would say growth in the team and empowering them to be able to do more. Right. So that's one thing. The other thing I guess, with the growth in space, I mean, I'm busting out of my office right now. We have storage stuff in all of our closets. We have a good I have a good-sized office, and all three of us sit in there. I can't step away and have a meeting at the house. Right? So it's, I think the growth of space would be awesome. I am stuck on that question because I don't know what kind of space needs to be. I don't know if that is purchasing a building and renting some space out and making it really a full design studio that has a warehousing element to it that I can store things in, not become a receiver, I won't do that. But just having that ability of spatial growth, is it working in a shared office environment is it just isn't having a streetscape that has my name on it for growth potential from a marketing perspective. I'm very stuck on that. I don't know where to go. And I've done a lot of investigation on what that means and all that. But so I think figuring that out would be really helpful. And I think until I think I'm sitting on that so much, that it's freezing me to a point.
Michele (26:29) Okay.
Jessica (26:29) And so without kind of knowing what my physical growth can be, I don't know how my team growth potential is right.
Michele (26:37) Right. Right.
Jessica (26:38) Um, so I know that sounds...
Michele (26:40) No, it does make sense. It can limit your team growth. If we're thinking about it from the perspective of adding more team members. It doesn't impact in most cases, growing the team members you already have. It does not right.
Jessica (26:57) You're right.
Michele (26:58) So two different things. When we look at the growing team. If we're growing the individual members you already have to the next level... Being cramped in a space can certainly change your attitude. But it's not like there's a skill set. You can't teach where you are. But it does impact your ability to bring on more team members for support. Yeah. So those two things, I think, if I were looking in, we think we need to get those two things figured out before we worry about growing client projects because growing client projects is going to come out of these enhanced systems, processes, space, and leadership and mentorship of the staff that you have. The thing is to, Jessica you know this because you have two employees, but the more you hire, the more you move up into managing and leading and coaching your team and your staff. Which is less time you have to design, which is less time you have to do it? So you have to have staff members who can also do those things for you to fill in so that you do work together in this collaborative process to get the job done.
Jessica (28:07) Okay, okay. I have definitely taken on a design directorship, I would say, you know, having worked in the commercial industry, we had big teams, junior designers, intermediate designers, senior designers, and then design directors. And I definitely am in that phase of design directing, and it was uncomfortable at first because I wasn't selecting every single little thing that went into the house. Right. And that was a little humbling for me. But my team has done so well. I now feel very, very good about where that sits. I just need someone to be able to do some of the skills that I have from my commercial background, the drawings, the technical side, the AutoCAD elevations and all that which I'm going to be taking on one of my junior signers as a trainee on those Friday days, possibly which maybe I could outsource that training but I'm trying to implement some growth from a technical side because I'm doing all the technical drawings to which I love doing because I also design while I'm doing them, but it's definitely keeping a little bit of a stop-gap and then being able to move forward until I get the drawing done.
Michele (29:18) So, okay, so tell us a little more about some things that you have tried already. So you are thinking about how to offload let's say, and to train some of these technical aspects, right?
Jessica (29:32) Mm-hmm.
Michele (29:34) You and I know I'm like you said have started investigating spaces.
Jessica (29:41) Hmm.
Michele (29:43) Even if it has you hung up right now you do have some? Do you have some numbers of some spaces that you've looked at or an idea of what things are running in your area? Or were you thinking more about just from the logistics side?
Jessica (29:56) More logistics? I mean, we did kind of go into some numbers, but our big question is rent or buy. And we can be an investor in that sort of situation. But I just, I don't know what that looks like and what that means to me. And what makes the most sense. Logistically, I feel comfortable with the numbers where we are and being able to take on something like that, but I don't know exactly at what capacity yet. So that's the trick. And that's what I'm trying to figure out.
Michele (30:32) Okay.
Jessica (30:33) Yeah.
Michele (30:33) What else have you tried when you're thinking about it? I'm going to say the overall umbrella of growth or scaling, what else have you thought about,
Jessica (30:41) I think, the autonomy of the team members, right. So as I've been taking on some of these clients that have trust in me, that I worked at, I worked with as a solo designer, right when it was just me. And they're bringing me on to like, do one more room or reaches something over here where it's not a full-scale project, maybe having a more direct client relationship with one of my junior designers. And so I still have a hand in it. I'm still overseeing, I'm still making sure that everything that goes out the door is at the level that I know they would expect, but maybe transitioning to that. And I've been doing it little by little, and I think I've ready to go a little bit more. And I think that'll help a lot. Me not being a gatekeeper of all of that.
Michele (31:31) Or a higher level gatekeeper.
Jessica (31:33) That's right.
Michele (31:34) That's right.
Michele (31:35) I would never want you to not be a gatekeeper that we just may move you up in the chain of the gatekeeping.
Jessica (31:41) That's right. That's right. Exactly. I mean, you know, when you're in a very tiny office as I am now, I know everything that's going on.
Michele (31:48) That's right.
Jessica (31:48) And I want to stay that way. It's my baby.
Michele (31:52) And there's a difference between giving approval and being the one doing the selections as you mentioned, there is a difference in saying this looks like our aesthetic. And I'm not really sure that I like that piece in there. Can you please set that out? For something else that has a bit more? Or tell me why you did that, you know, tell me why you made that decision, not in a bad way but just explained to me the process behind it, especially if you're the one going to stand in front of the client.
Jessica (32:19) Exactly.
Michele (32:21) What are some of the things that you're not willing to do to continue to grow? Like one of the things you mentioned was you don't want to have longer days. And I don't want to add Fridays in so we know that for right now. We want to keep your nine to four from Monday to Thursday, and for Friday's to be Jessica only or as needed if there is some major thing. So we know what kind of time investment in working in the company is not in a place to shift right now. Correct?
Jessica (32:55) And that is correct. 100%. That is my biggest put down will not change right now. Because I know as my kids are growing, their times are going to shift in their school and their ability to be at home or be more autonomous on their own. Whatever it is, that's going to change. So I do feel like I am in a season just as I was in a season when my kids were in preschool and I was only working at the Flowers, right. The other thing that I am having a really hard time letting go of probably is the drafting side of it. I had thought about outsourcing drafting to a company or other designers that do drafting for designers, but there's so much design for me that comes within drafting and figuring it all out and learning from it. I think you learned so much from drafting and putting pen to paper than AutoCAD or whatever, that I'm not willing to outsource that. So that's why I'm like as much as it is going to be a shift for my one Junior designer that's going to be taking that on, she's smart as a whip. So I have no worries about her being able to take it on, I want to keep that in house. I want to train her even though it's probably going to be the slower route. I want to build that skill of hers. And I know she's ready for it. I know she can do it. So I think for me outsourcing some of those tools that I know would be the smarter thing to do. I'm not willing to do that right now. And that includes like social media, I don't want to outsource socially, I'll just be slow and it'll be okay. And I'll post randomly and maybe one day, I'll just say, you know what, I'm going to focus on this but right now. I'm okay with the level of marketing that I'm doing. Right.
Michele (34:29) Okay.
Jessica (34:40) Yeah, I guess maybe I'm worried that it sounding like I want to grow but is not willing too.
Michele (34:45) No, I don't take it that way at all. We all have things that we do and don't want to do now. Does it mean that it's going to always be this way? No, but what like my immediate response to you... let's say on the drafting, I would say that's fine, Jessica. So what else can we take off your plate so that you have time to train and can keep that in house. So if you want to keep that and you're going to kind of draw a line in the sand that you want that stay, then to create capacity for that we have to remove something else, what are you willing to give up? And that's the way we may start to look at that. Okay, so I don't think there's anything wrong with saying this and even if it's what you love, I would not come in and say we need to go outsource the part of the job that you think you love the most. I would say, Now drafting may not be with other designers' love, but it's what you love. And that's okay. Right. Which is, again, why I don't do cookie-cutter businesses. Like tell me what you love, tell me what you want. Let's try to make that work because you're going to be happier and more satisfied. So I wouldn't come in until you gotta go change all your hours. Now at some point, if we've reached every capacity that we've reached the time in the office may show up. But we can initially start to build with what we have and maintain the things that are most important to you. And again, I see growth and scaling on a continuum. Not I'm here and then I'm there. And then I sit still, that was kind of what my son's question was, is, do you ever choose to maintain? And I've had years where I chose to maintain, or years where I've chosen to, I want to let's say make the same amount of money and work less, or I want to have a different type of project to make the money. Like, Here's the money we need to make to keep the business going. But there's different work. I want to do different types of clients I might want to work with, you know what I mean to keep us all fresh and moving and growing outside of what you don't know. Because that's a barrier to where you want to get like what I don't know. What other barriers do you think are right in front of you that you know and have identified?
Jessica (36:56) I would say probably an understanding Of how inefficient my processes, right? I think that that comes with really looking at the numbers, really looking at the overhead costs from a day to day basis, right? Like how many hours are spent on overhead? I think diving more into where are we spending within a project and most of our time where some of those inefficiencies being spent, and I'm not looking for a perfect scenario. But I do think that I don't know how to change and grow the day to day to be able to work less, and keep that level of output, right? And maybe maintain where the growth that I'm at right now, I don't know how to even understand that without knowing where those time sucks are aware where we can improve. I know kind of a big picture where I feel like we can improve, but I don't know the hard data. So I'm slowly starting to dive into that re looking at billable hours versus nonbillable hours, I have everybody track everything. So you know, my team is very transparent. They're very good at that stuff. And I've been tracking my own as well, which has been great humbling. At the same time, my unbillable time that my billable time that that's easy to track, but my unbillable time, it's like, Ah, what did I spend all that time driving? I drove four hours today.
Michele (38:30) I do remember one of the things that I asked you to do, you're in designers inner circle, and one of the things that I asked you to do was to go back and look at some of the projects that you had, and to start getting an accounting of them. And I don't mean accounting like expenses. I mean, what did you do? How did you do it? How much time did it take you? Have you also thought of asking your team members where they felt like they were duplicating effort, or where there was efficiency and their day to day, I'll give an example. It frustrates me to go to the doctor. And they hand me 14 pieces of paper to fill out and asked me the same information on eight out of the 14 pages. And I think why can you not just pull that? It seems extremely inefficient to me. All right, and that is just such a highlighted version of it. But in our company, sometimes we do things that can be inefficient, and that cost us money. And it also takes up our time. And so it reduces our capacity to take on more work, even within the constraints and restraints of what we have. Right? And so maybe I would suggest that you talk to your two Junior designers and ask them, where do you feel you get bogged down in your day to day? Do you know immediately from task to task what the next thing is you should do so did they understand prioritization without having to ask Right, because if you understand the task, if it's not a duplication of effort, if you understand the priority of it, it helps move you through at a quicker rate. The next thing I would do if we're just talking about processes and procedures, is to ask yourself, Is there anything in your processes and procedures that can be automated, or anything that could be handled with technology that again, would move you along faster?
You know, there are so many tools out there. I mean, first, we've got all the project management tools, the bigger companies that do that, but then there's also this little internal project management piece, the air tables, and the cellos and the Mondays and all those little pieces and parts that move you through dub Sato, all of that. Some of it has built-in automation. Some of it you can set up a zap and create your automation. But is there a standard way of documenting. Is there standardization to the way you're going to do a task? All of those standards and all of that, it seems tedious. But it will free you up in the biggest way once it's done, which then again, creates more time, which creates more capacity within the same nine to four Monday through Thursday. Have you dug into all of those pieces and parts? This is where it's going to be hard because this is going to be some of the work that needs to be done between Monday and Thursday, not just on Jessica's Friday, because we want to bring your team into that. Because you may be so steeped in knowing what to do when to do it, how to do it, how to prioritize that it's not an issue for you. But for them, it may very well be.
Jessica (41:43) And I know I have been going back to past projects to see... I've gone back and looked at the scope of work. We do a very detailed scope of works. And I was very pleased to see that, I would say 90% of the scope of works that we've put out in the last two years, we've hit the numbers on the billable time. I was able to estimate very accurately.
Michele (42:06) Right.
Jessica (42:07) Which tells me that...
Michele (42:09) Huge Jessica!
Jessica (42:10) I know. I mean, there were a couple of projects where things went awry. Like they added a bunch of
Michele (42:14) It happens.
Jessica (42:15) ...that I didn't keep track of. And while it was happening, right, and then on the bill, the finals, and it was all discovered, it was figured out, everybody was fine. But for the most part, it was almost like within the hour, I mean, it was crazy. And I don't, I'm not good enough to track while we're going through, it just happened to work out so beautifully. It was great. So I feel really good about us being able to understand and manage our time within the project scope, which is huge. So I feel good about that. So I would say we do use Asana as a tool to track to do this. I'm working on getting the timetable aspect of it moving. The tracking of the linear nature of a project.
Michele (43:05) That's right.
Jessica (43:06) Who is working on what... I'm working on that...
Michele (43:08) That's the true management piece of it. Yep.
Jessica (43:11) Exactly. Timetable. We just started actually, I meant to say Air table we just started working with. And that has been huge because we are working on much larger scale projects. We're able to track individual specifications by trade, and have all the spec sheets ready to go. So what we were doing on this one project, we were selecting all the light fixtures, and then the contractors like oh, and now I need all spec sheets. And so we would provide the spec sheets and then oh, and now I need all the heavyweights. Well, the heavyweights aren't always on the spec sheet. So we had to go back to the vendor. But again, it was like, Wow, that's inefficient. And had I known that... I mean, I should have known but whatever. Now as we're moving through projects, my team knows you gather that information when you're doing the original selections, once the client has approved it, that information goes into air table. And it's right there.
Michele (44:08) We did it one time we don't have to go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth.
Jessica (44:11) I'm really trying hard not to reinvent the wheel and not to touch something multiple times that doesn't need to be touched. Obviously, there are three selections, there's going to be all right. I'm not like I said, I'm not looking for a perfect system. But I do know that there are things that aren't the process that has not been created beautifully, or we're not consistent about the process or whatever it is, that I know we can improve upon. And I think asking the team those questions is going to be extremely valuable, and I think they'll be honest.
Michele (44:44) Right? And let me give you a couple of reasons why I want you to also ask the team. Number one, we're trying to be collaborative on your team, you're trying to grow your team. So we need them to think that way. Because if they think that way, then let say later down the road they find another way to implement something or do it faster, you want them already thinking that I've got the freedom to bring this back to the team. Right?
Jessica (45:06) That's right.
Michele (45:07) So that's super important. It also mentors and grows them to just think about everything cost the company and profit is a choice. Everything we're doing here is an associated costs time, effort, energy, money, something. So we want to do that. But the other thing it does is it brings them into the solving, because teams do not like I mean, none of us like to be told what to do. There are very few people I know who want to be told what to do. But if you feel like you've had a hand, in creating a solution, you're so much more willing to give it a shot and give it a try. Even if it becomes difficult. Even if there is a learning curve. You're willing to feel like you're part of a team. And since that's also what you're trying to build. So my first thought, if I'm looking at growing your company, okay? And I'm going to put growth in air quotes that only you and I can see but everybody else can hear that that's an air quote.
The first thing I'm going to say Jessica is given that you're not going to move out into another space tomorrow, that there is going to be an investigation route there, there's going to be a, what type of business do I want to be, we got a little more work to do. But the very first thing you can start to do immediately looks for these holes inefficiency because that is going to number one. I know you're at capacity, but if we start doing it, we may see that open some capacity. Okay, so we want open capacity with staff. That's the first thing. The next thing that I would say is, again, we're going to put client growth third because you're maxed, so there's no reason to go market and bring in more work. When your space is maxed and your people are maxed. We have to create room for your people's room for your space. Now let's go get more clients. Okay. So continue the marketing you're already doing.
So we don't ever want to stop it, we just don't want to ramp it up quite yet. So the first thing we're going to do is we want every single person to be doing the right things. I think we had talked about even also, to some degree doing Strengths Finder, at least the top five strengths with your two staff members, I would hope that you do the full 34. Because we want to know your top five are your natural strengths where you think first, your bottom five or your blind spots, I then would like to look at the strengths of each of your two Junior designers, because even though they're Junior designers, they are going to attack things differently. And so as we start to think, what are the other pieces that you can hand off or that you can have somebody else be the first line gatekeeper on?
We're going to start looking at their strengths for who might do what, right, in addition to that, so I would love for you to have them both do Strengths Finder, and then we can look at it and figure out. I would ask them, where is it you would like to grow in the company, you might be surprised what they might tell you for what they would like to take on and what they would like to do. And of course, it needs to fit under the umbrella of your company and what you're offering. But again, getting them involved in I know, even incorporate, they would say, Michelle, what is the next step you want to take? Where do you see your career going? Where do you see yourself in one year, three years, five years, and they help me develop a plan to get there? So we want to move them over time from junior designer to intermediate designer to senior designer because it's going to grow your company and add more capacity right in skill, which then might also add capacity that we can bring on more talent. Okay, so I think we start first, by investing in the growth of your people and their skills, and get that kind of tied up in a bow while we start looking at spaces. So if space is the next constraint, let's start looking at that like I would not go hire more people to throw at a problem that you don't have a system created for?
Jessica (48:55) I agree, right.
Michele (49:03) So I know that it's probably going to be tight to bring a fourth person in that might be a virtual person, it may be something else. But let's identify the holes, what's not getting done what people you don't want to take away a job from somebody who's sitting in your office who loves it, to outsource it, right? We want to allow them to do what they love as well because that's how you're building the team. So let's focus on what you have max that then start looking for either what is the next person or position that I would hire while we're starting to look at your space constraints. Okay. Alright, so then when we move into space now all of this is I know you've you're doing the understanding your financials, you're doing some of the financial pieces so that you can watch it off. So it's not like we're taking our eye off that because that is a huge underpinning of all of this working, right?
Jessica (49:53) Yes.
Michele (49:55) Then what I would have you do is I would have you write down your options for space. So you mentioned a couple of different options. You mentioned buying a building and having a portion and maybe renting out a portion to help bring in income. You mentioned having a streetscape with your name you mentioned having a big design place. You know some go out into a shared space, there's like 10 different ways you can do this, I would have you, first of all, write down every way that you could move out of your space. And then I would ask you to choose the top three that feels like the best fit for you or what you think you'd like to explore first. Okay, then I want to go on this exploration of those three things. What will they mean for the three years? Five years? 10 years. So what is your 10-year plan? What is your next year's plan? Because what we don't want to do, we may take some baby steps to get there to even make sure you like being out of the house because that's going to impact your kids coming home at the end. of the day, there's a lot of other impacts to this, it's not just get up and walk out of the house, there's going to be money that has to be spent on the build-out, even if it's just getting different desk furniture versus a whole thing. It's going to make a difference. And do you have street traffic? And are you going to have open hours? I mean, there's just a lot more that comes into this, then let's go get a space, I would suggest that you have three to six months of rent, or payments saved up and that we investigate what a buildout might be based on what your options are and make a plan to start saving for a build-out, or how are we going to invest in that? Do you have the funds to invest in the build-out? Are we going to take a loan for that? How long is it going to take to pay it off?
But again, if we're not adding more people and more work, that's just sucking it out of the income you already have. Which means that we either need to be able to take on more projects for the additional cost or we get to work more to take on or We got to take better projects at higher rates so that we can keep the capacity where it is as far as time and people that are working in the company. So it all has to go together. So start first by maximizing, educating, encouraging coaching, making sure that the people that you have been in the exact right positions, doing the exact right work, then we're going to notice what your holes are from an HR perspective, then we're going to be able to at the same time to be looking at what spaces do I need? And then what do those spaces require of additional income so that you then don't lose all of the salary and all the profit that you're currently making so that you can have space so that you can work more and make less because that stinks.
Jessica (52:44) Mm-hmm.
Michele (52:45) And I see that I see people not doing this plan to move out. They think they're bursting at the seams and they move out and then they're hundred thousand dollars in debt by the time they've done a build-out and staffing and now they're not making as much Because now they're managing a building. And then then, darn, if it's retail, I got people walking through the door. I mean, it just becomes a snowball quickly building up going down the hill, if it's not planned for. And so I want to just tell you, I'm really excited that you're trying to plan in advance for that growth. So that it is it doesn't knock you off your feet, they're going to be challenging, but it doesn't knock you off your feet. So then once you've got your top three of here's what it could do. What would it then may now how does the company need to shift to be able to still have profit-making money pay for the people? How many projects do I have to take? What might those look like? And what additional resources would I need to make that happen? I know all of that felt like getting hit with a fire hydrant, the water coming out of it.
Michele (53:50) No. That's the way they know. But it's I mean, that's exactly what we need to hear.
Jessica (53:55) I think that those are the things that have been swirling through my head and trying to understand if these concerns are false and that I'm just frozen out of fear, or they're real concerns and it validates the fact that they are real concerns. And the process does need to be sought after and reworked and cleaned up and
Jessica (54:21) Right. Yeah.
Michele (54:22) And I don't want to go backward. Yeah, we don't want to go backward. And hey, we don't want to go back to profit. I don't want you in debt up to your eyeballs. None of that is going to increase your ability to sleep at night. If anything, you could do better to just take on higher-level projects, stay where you are with the staff you have and make more money. I mean, I'm going to go for that all day long versus growing big because of some perceived pressure to do that. If you don't want to change all the underlying structure to make it happen. And to jump into a building, I can tell you your underlying structure has to change, you're going to have to probably work more hours, and you're most likely going to have to have more people. And so if you're not wanting to do all that we need to think about... I mean, even if you just got office space for the three of you so that you can have a collaborative space, and at least one place that you could walk off and have a private conversation, just that would mean that you've got to take on more work, or higher-paying projects just to cover that cost when you start moving into an area to receive and to store even just your own, or to have some type of a resource center for your clients. You're talking a whole bigger ballgame. And so nothing wrong with that. But I don't know that it would be very easy to get all of that and not grow your staff and not grow the time in the business.
Jessica (55:52) Agreed.
Michele (55:52) That's a balancing act. So I don't think there is anything wrong with what you're asking is then figuring out the My son asked me when's enough, enough. And that's why even moving out can be a staged approach. It may be that you move out just enough to have bigger office spaces dedicated. The business grows a little. And in two years, you look into investing in a building and the business course a lot your kids are older, you have more time. Don't think that it's an either-or. There may be an and a but in the middle, hmm. This could be a continuum. You may decide you don't like it. There are a lot of designers right now that I know, who have had spaces outside their home, who are choosing in some ways to shut those down and go back home and go smaller and make more money so that they don't have to pay all the overhead expenses that go with being out.
Michele (56:47) That's right. I don't want to go backward, so I like that you're taking the time to think this through. Did that help it all?
Jessica (56:56) Oh, that helped a tremendous amount. I mean, just talking about And, like I said, the validation of the complexity of the situation. And knowing that I'm not over-complicating things, but I'm, I'm not overthinking things and not moving. You know, it's so easy, as you said, to see people on social media and to compare yourself to other designers who are at a different season, a different point in their careers, and say, well, gosh, my projects are good. I too can be doing those things, right?
Jessica (57:31) Right.
Michele (57:31) It's different family restrictions or constraints. And yet we don't know. I remember when my oldest went to college, and Rob Lowe at the time was sending his son to college and he had written an article and he said to his son, and I thought it was so good for so many reasons. And he said to his son, don't ever compare your insides to somebody else's outsides.
Jessica (57:58) Hmm.
Michele (57:59) Because You don't know what's happening. And that's what we do. We compare our thoughts and our insights into what we see with somebody else. I remember a year or so ago, calling my coat and I was crying and she's like, Michelle, what is wrong with you like that is not you? And I said I think I'm behind. She said, behind what? I said, Well, I saw somebody who was doing something that I'm not doing and I felt like I was behind and she's like, okay, but do you know what's behind everything? They're doing? Well... No. I was comparing my insides to their outsides. I didn't know and I had to stop right then and go, Okay, stop, stop, I'm gonna pray blessings on what they're doing. Good for you. You're able to do those things. And I'm going to stop and pray blessings over what I'm doing because here I am. And this is what I can do. Like I have had to restructure my whole life and business around three autoimmune diseases. I've watched people that have none of the health issues that I have, going and doing and traveling and being There's a part of me that wishes I could do that. And I could, but my health would pay a price. And I'm willing for it to pay that price. So we all are making decisions, whether it's our families, our friends, the size of business we want to have, our health, we're all making them. And we just don't need to compare ours inside to somebody else's outsides. And that's what social media does.
I've worked with people who have come to me and have been the top 30, under 30, the top 40 under 40. And if you look at what's happening online, in the magazines or the publications, it looks like they are killing it, and they're dying inside and their financials are dying, or they're in bankruptcy. And it's not once or twice. I've done it many, many, many times. And at first, I was shocked and now I'm just like, okay, just what we see in print is not what we see behind the scenes. And that's why I asked you, Jessica, at the very beginning pressure to grow? Is it? Is it an internal pressure grounded in the fact that you're willing to make some concessions grow? Or is it a false pressure brought on by social media or by this supposed to, you're supposed to when maybe you're not supposed to you're supposed to do it a different way. Maybe you are. And maybe you aren't. But I would challenge you to even start there on what is it that Jessica wants not what is it that you're told that you should be wanting? At this time. You may or may not want what you're being told in air quotes. And gathering from social media. Step ought to be
Jessica (1:00:48) Right.
Michele (1:00:49) I hope that's freeing.
Jessica (1:00:51) Hmm, that's very freeing. And I think that that's a huge takeaway, and a huge you know, I try hard not to compare do.
Michele (1:01:00) We all try, but it's so easy.
Jessica (1:01:02) It's hard. It's hard.
Michele (1:01:03) And I mean, easy to so hard not to do.
Jessica (1:01:07) Exactly. And I constantly see what's going on, me just being at the market last week, right? You see all these people on all these panels and all these things and like, I could be doing that too. I'm not marketing myself enough. I'm not doing these things. I'm not putting myself out there and not letting my name be known. And then I had to sit back and say, Well, you know what, right now, we're in the hard season of getting it clean. doing it right. Keeping our clients happy, which is 100% My biggest goal, right? I had to say, okay, that's where I am and that's okay. Maybe next year, I'll focus on more of that outward...
Michele (1:01:56) Yeah.
Jessica (1:01:57) Growth. I know, whatever that is. I don't even know. if that's something that I need.
Michele (1:02:01) Let me ask you this, your name, it may not be known on a panel at a high point because you haven't been on one. Right?
Jessica (1:02:09) Right. Right. Right.
Michele (1:02:11) Your name is known in the Richmond area because your clients are coming and coming again.
Jessica (1:02:15) Yes.
Michele (1:02:16) Now I'm going to ask you which one's paying you?
Jessica (1:02:20) That is 100% Correct. I thought about that. Just yesterday. I was like, that's not bringing money.
Michele (1:02:25) I have not been paid directly to speak on a panel.
Jessica (1:02:30) Right.
Michele (1:02:30) And I certainly get paid to speak. I certainly get paid for other things. That's not where I get paid. I get paid people that are engaging with me, and that knows my name because they're working with me. And that's how you're getting paid. Because the people in Richmond knows your name.
Jessica (1:02:46) That's right.
Michele (1:02:46) You are not going to make money because another designer knows your name.
Jessica (1:02:50) That's 100% correct.
Michele (1:02:52) They're not going to pay you for that. And again, I'm not slamming the panels. I love being on them. And I think that's another opportunity. That is almost like a growth and enrichment opportunity for you personally, versus a business growth. There's nothing wrong, we could write down a whole thing. That's the same way that I've encouraged you to go back to your team and ask them what their growth, you write down that you personally, if that's what you want, just know that you're doing it for your enrichment. And why you're doing it, right. Because it is not going to necessarily be the thing that brings in all these millions of people in Virginia to work with you, because they're not gonna see it, they're not going to be there.
Jessica (1:02:54) Nope. That's right.
Michele (1:03:08) So we do have to keep that in mind. It's kind of like doing the show house and everybody thinks we're going to have all this work. And that is not the way that works at the panel is the same way. Your ideal client is not sitting in Virginia waiting to see if you were on a panel at one of the markets so they can hire you. They're not breaking at that. That's right. That has to be something that you want for a different reason.
Jessica (1:03:59) Right?
Michele (1:04:00) If you want it, let's go for it. I'll help you. Right. I'll help you get there. But identify why you want it. What is it going to serve in you? And it may certainly serve your business, but maybe there's a piece of you that can be served by that. And there's nothing wrong with that either.
Jessica (1:04:17) Right. I think it's a mentoring thing. Like I've always loved mentoring. And that's why I love working with my team as much as I do. I speak at Virginia Tech to the students, and it's one of my favorite things I do, honestly, and I love doing that kind of thing. And so I think for me, that's the level there that I'm kind of like, hey, that's cool. But I've also reminded myself that being asked to do something like that has nothing to do with my success in my business.
Michele (1:04:48) That's what I'm trying to say.
Jessica (1:04:50) Yeah.
Michele (1:04:50) So yeah, but it doesn't mean...
Jessica (1:04:52) It's hard not to filter that out.
Michele (1:04:55) But it also doesn't mean that it's not important if it's important. You because it's part of your natural growth and the things that you desire to mentor and to get back into share, then we need to build that into the plan, which means even more, so we need to delegate and get your team ready so that you can step away and have the opportunity. Because if every single thing flows through your hands, your eyes your stamp, you don't get a chance to step away. So if you want to do it is part of the mentorship of your team to allow you the time to do it. So we do need to take that into account.
Jessica (1:05:28) That's right now I love that.
Michele (1:05:30) Okay. I know. Are you excited? So you now you got some work to do.
Jessica (1:05:38) So excited!
Michele (1:05:39) Okay, go.
Jessica (1:05:41) I love to plan. I love plans. I may be slow with them sometimes, but I love them.
Michele (1:05:45) No, I think you're doing a great job. I do. And I know you even said on our pre conversation before we came on. Oh my gosh, I feel scattered and I feel like maybe I can't even describe it. I think you did an excellent job on your very first podcast. You're no longer Baby podcaster. I think you did a better job though Jessica expressing? Here's what I'm thinking, I think I need to grow, and then saying, but I'm struggling with how to define the growth. Right? And yeah, there's what I don't want to give up. I don't want to give up the quality of life that I've created by keeping my business within these bookends of days and times. So how can I grow if I've got these constraints? And what might that look like? And then allowing us to dig into the topic in the conversation of what does it mean to grow and to scale, and that it can happen in more than one way. It's not just one way. I have a client that I've been working with it was told by another person in the industry, that if they weren't looking to do ABC and XYZ, they weren't growing and scaling and they didn't want to help them. And I was over here going, the fact that you want to do what you're trying to do, which is work less, make more and do it within these boundaries. I will help you scale that all day long. Right? So there's not just one way to define it. And I love that you're open to going, what does it mean to me and my team and my family in this season, because growth and scaling may mean something different to you. But if we were having this discussion in four years, it would look very different. Just for my personal history, I know when my kids were in elementary, middle school, and when they got into high school, the conversations of where my business could go and what it could do, and how I was willing and able to rebalance my time between family and work, it was a different conversation.
Jessica (1:07:40) Right?
Michele (1:07:41) So give yourself grace for the period that you're in because you don't get to do over with that and being that parent on call during the week and raising those kids is super important to you. Put it in the position of importance that you and your husband have decided it should be, and that's okay, too.
Jessica (1:08:02) That's right. That's right. That's right. Boundaries and grace. I love that.
Michele (1:08:07) Boundaries, Grace, blessings, mercy, all with it. Take it.
Jessica (1:08:11) I'll take it all. All the time all the time.
Michele (1:08:18) What, Jessica, I do appreciate you sharing this because I know there are a lot of people listening that are asking, How do I grow? How do I scale? What might that look like? And thinking that maybe that it has been shown to them to be one direction when it can be multi-directional. And so I appreciate being even able to dig in and have that conversation of what it can look like.
Jessica (1:08:42) Well, thank you, honestly, I mean, like I said, validating that the thoughts that are there should be there, and then I need to continue camping on them. Right?
Michele (1:08:54) Right.
Jessica (1:08:54) And then giving me the freedom to think about things in a season and think about and reevaluate where those thoughts are coming from. And I think just understanding, are they real? Are they perceived? What does it mean to me in my season in my life, that's huge. So thank you for being so open and being able to dig in and pull that out of me. Because, unless you talk it out, it's hard thing goes a lot of things to swirl in our brain.
Michele (1:09:23) It is. So one of the things I would say to you, too, is being in the inner circle, you can ask any question at any time. So even as you're processing some of this, jump in there and ask me questions and go back and look at that first module on the Solid Foundation Builder on your why. Because if we can go back and kind of now look at your why. And make sure that when you're building it is in support of your why. And then we'll work on the mission and vision and make sure it all lines up. But there are resources out there that will continue to help you and then just ask me any question because you have full access to do that through there. Right well keep you moving on all of this. Okay.
Jessica (1:10:02) That's awesome. Thank you so much, Michele, this has been a big treat for me to be honest with you.
Michele (1:10:08) Good deal.
Jessica (1:10:09) Very cathartic.
Michele (1:10:11) All right. So just tell everybody where they can find you and how they can follow you on Instagram and Facebook or where you're hanging out.
Jessica (1:10:19) Probably Instagram is the best way. It's JTW Design, LLC. And my website is JTW Design.co or.com. I was able to get both of those domains, luckily recently, which is awesome. And yeah, I'd love to hear from anybody that questions or feeling much the same as I am. Feel free to reach out to private message me whatever.
Michele (1:10:43) Sounds great. And what we may have to do is maybe we'll regroup in a year and see where you are and what decisions you made. That would be fun.
Jessica (1:10:50) Oh, that would be fun.
Michele (1:10:53) We'll put it on the calendar and say Oh put it in the same spot, It won't look the same.
Jessica (1:10:58) That's right. It'll be more efficient and I'll be yes much, much brighter.
Michele (1:11:03) Right? That's right. Jessica thank you again.
Jessica (1:11:07) Thanks, Michele, enjoy your weekend.
Michele (1:11:09) You too.
Michele (1:11:10) Thank you again, Jessica, for sharing your thoughts on growing your business and what that might Intel, along with the thoughts swirling around in your head. You know, it's easier quite often to have someone to talk these things out with. So if you're in your office right now, and you have lots of info in your brain, taking up space and swirling, even if you can't talk to somebody stop and write it all down, and then use that to start making sense of the patterns and to forge the next steps. If you want to have help navigating the path to your company's growth, join the Designers Inner Circle, you can find listening ear assistance and sound advice. For details, you can go to ScarletThreadConsulting.com, let us help you because profit doesn't happen by accident.