PIAC EP 79 - Stacie Kennedy.png
 

079: Scaling Two Parts of the Business at Once  

Michele  (0:01)  Hello, my name is Michele and you're listening to Profit is the Choice. On the podcast, today is Stacie Kennedy of Atlanta Custom Interiors. ACI provides custom soft furnishings, upholstery, window treatments, and dorm bedding to both retail and trade. Stacie is sharing today in our business challenge podcast the question of how to grow two sides of her business. And actually, we're probably going to talk about three and then asking about when is the right time to hire and how to market to keep the new hires busy and steady work. As well as not breaking the bank with a marketing budget. Not something to take lightly. So on our podcast today, we're going to discuss timing, opportunity, and marketing. Enjoy the podcast.

Michele  (1:21)  Hey, Stacie, welcome to the podcast.

Stacie  (1:23)  Hey, Michelle, I'm glad to be here.

Michele  (1:25)  Glad to have you here. Thank you so much for being willing to jump on the business challenge podcast. So we're going to get to talk about a challenge that's in front of you, and maybe some creative ways to think about it or to solve the problem that you have. But before we get started with that, how about jumping in and telling all of us a little bit about your business, kind of where you got started, what you're doing now because you've already had a journey to get from there to here. So tell us about that so that it sets the stage for kind of the next evolution of your business.

Stacie  (1:56)  So I started my business in 2008 out of money home in 2013, I bought an existing business called Atlanta Custom Interiors and that is what I do business like today. It is a custom window treatment and upholstery business. We are to the trade and the public. And in 2018 I purchased another business called Dorm Suite Dorm. And so now I also have incorporated that into my business doing dorm decor for college students.

Michele  (2:29)  And you serve in the Atlanta market right now, right?

Stacie  (2:32)  I do.

Michele  (2:32)  I mean I'm sure you work outside of the Atlanta market, but that's where you're located.

Stacie  (2:36)  Mainly metro Atlanta. We have a couple of projects, sometimes outside the perimeter and in North Georgia, that sort of thing. But it's mainly metro Atlanta.

Michele  (2:46)  And so it started in your home and then you bought a business. You have a walk-in store, right? And then you just recently moved to a new location. 

Stacie  (2:57)  I did. It's been a busy year. 

Michele  (2:59)  So You have some foot traffic of people that find you and come in. And then you also can work trade with designers and support them. You do blinds, shades, shutters, upholstery and window coverings, correct? 

Stacie  (3:16)  That's correct.

Michele  (3:17)  And then like you mentioned, you have the Dorm Suite Dorm business, which is where you do dorm decor. And I know that you have all kinds of goals to continue growing that moving forward as well. So with all of that going on, and having just moved into a new location, which you're super excited about, and the pictures are great. So what is the challenge that's in front of you?

Stacie  (3:43)  The challenge, I guess, and it's been a challenge from the start is just continuing to grow the business and to keep work steady enough to maintain the employees that I have and possibly add another employee That's the tricky part is when to add, how do you know when to add and how do you sustain it?

Michele  (4:07)  How have you thought about how big it is to make the company? How many seamstresses do you have now?

Stacie  (4:14)  I have one full-time seamstress on the soft treatment side of the business. And I have one upholster, who's full time on the upholstery side. And I have one part-time assistant that helps me run the storefront.

Michele  (4:30)  Plus your bookkeepers, coaches, lawyers and all the extra stuff like that, right? 

Stacie  (4:36)  Yes.

Michele  (4:37)  And so do you have any idea when you're looking at growth, Stacie, are you thinking I want to grow to get to X number in sales? Or are you thinking I want to grow to this particular size so that nobody has to wait over six to eight weeks for a window treatment or upholstery, what is it that's driving the growth that you want to have?

Stacie  (5:00)  I think that what's driving me and it may not be a real answer, but what's driving me is throughout the years so I've been in business for quite some time. Now throughout the years, I have added seamstress, I have added upholster but haven't been able to sustain it. So what's driving me is to find that number or to find that growth, whether it be in numbers or work to be able to sustain adding those people feel like I need an additional seamstress and at times I need an additional upholster but I don't have enough work to keep them.

Michele  (5:45)  Got it. So we're looking for that sweet spot that keeps those that you employed seamstress slash upholster busy and that also allows for you to not have a timeline for delivery. That is so far out that it is unmanageable. 

Stacie  (6:01)  Yes.

Michele  (6:03)  And so I'm sure right now we're recording this, this is going to be airing in 2020. But I'm certain that the amount of work in front of you right now is probably overwhelming because we are right here in the November December time frame. And that's like we had this push right to get everything done. Which is always when you went to add the other person.

Stacie  (6:24)  Yeah, our cut-offs are passed. We will take work now. But no one will get it until January at this point if it comes in. 

Michele  (6:34)  Right. 

Stacie  (6:34)  ...from here until the year. I don't know when I want to add the additional person. I feel like right now I need that additional person, especially on the soft treatment side of the business. That side of the business seems to be booming at the moment. And I'm cutting in all my spare time trying to run the business and measuring and me having appointments and installing and all the stuff that goes along with it. I'm in the workroom cutting and trying to keep things on the racks ready for my seamstress to sew. So all she has to do is put them together and try to keep things moving.

Michele  (7:08)  So you've kind of mentioned it, I think, but in a perfect world, what would your staffing look like? And what would your timing look like concerning how quickly you can get out a product to your clients?

Stacie  (7:22)  So in a perfect world, I guess that would be two seamstresses working full time on the soft treatment side. And that timeline would be four to six weeks. I like to keep it four to six weeks people get antsy when you get past eight weeks, and we're at eight weeks right now. And people are scrambling, not liking it, but it is what it is. And they're taking it in stride. I guess I can say the upholstery side of the business has slowed this latter part of the year.

Michele  (7:52)  Right. 

Stacie  (7:53)  Not sure why or what's going on on that side of the business at the moment. But is picking back up. We have work now to get us through the end of the year. But again, I would like to have enough to maintain my upholster. They are full time and possibly add someone to help him.

Michele  (8:13)  You know, one of the hard parts here is exactly what you said is forget who to hire, we know who to hire a seamstress and upholstery, but it's the when to hire and then the sustaining part. So the two things that you mentioned are what's most important, and the sustaining part is driven by marketing efforts. And then when to hire is part marketing, part financial, like when can I afford them? When do I have the work? And how do I keep that up? 

Stacie  (8:38)  Right. 

Michele  (8:39)  So what are some ways that you've already started looking for people? Let's talk about that in marketing to bring in the work.

Stacie  (8:46)  On the soft treatment side, I guess I've been networking a little more this year looking for new designers to fill the slower periods that we've had in the past and that seems to have worked out. This year, it's been a really good year for the soft treatment side of the business. And I have gained a couple of new designers in that regard. We've also had some really big sales to retail customers that you just don't know when they're going to walk in the door, but they did. So that's how it's been good. The upholstery side, I don't know that I'm marketed and talk about it as much as I do the soft treatment side, it's just always kind of taken care of itself. And this year, it hasn't taken care of itself. And so I've kind of thought, well, maybe people are upholstering furniture like they used to maybe they're just going and buying new furniture. And so I'm not sure how to market that side of the business and what I need to change moving forward to try to continue to have growth there or to have work.

Michele  (9:51)  So I don't know if you listened but I'll put a link in for everybody else for Michelle Platt came on and talked about and Cynthia Bleskachek has done the same the scalability of businesses that are upholstered based. And how those are so difficult. And in some ways, it's difficult to scale drapery, workroom, anything that is labor-intensive, each person gets to a max that they can do. There's only so much you can produce and so fast you can go, there's only so many processes that we can put in place and so many tools, and then at some point, it's about adding people. And the more you add people, then of course, the more you have to have the work command to sustain the salary of the people. 

Stacie  (10:37)  Right.

Michele  (10:38)  And so no doubt it is a challenge. A couple of things that I would think we need to start thinking about and one of the questions I did ask you is, what were you not willing to do to achieve this? And, I'll let you answer. 

Stacie  (10:53)  I'm just looking at what I answer to that question. I guess I'm just like any other entrepreneur and owning your Business is not really what people envision. Once you get in the middle of it, you work all the time. I feel like I work all the time, constantly on email, I'm constantly texting people, I'm constantly just, I feel like I'm constantly working. I sit on my sofa at night, at the end of the day, and I'm still returning emails. So I don't want to work anymore. I don't want to work any more hours already feel like I work like 10 hours a day.

Michele  (11:26)  Right. 

Stacie  (11:26)  At least. I don't want to work anymore.

Michele  (11:29)  And you also said you didn't want to spend a crazy amount on marketing.

Stacie  (11:33)  Right.

Michele  (11:34)  And I get that. So let's talk about that for a minute. What is a crazy amount for you? For example?

Stacie  (11:40)  I don't know because I've never really spent that much money on marketing since I started my business. Well, let me back up there. When I bought Atlanta Custom Interiors in 2013. The prior owner was using an SEO company and I'm not sure you call that marketing, but maybe it is. She had an SEO company. in place that was doing the algorithms for her website and that sort of thing to keep everything at the top of the Google page, I continue that it was an exorbitant amount of money at the time, I thought it was exorbitant was $500 a month for that SEO company. And eventually, I just stopped. I just got out of the contract with them. And I didn't continue it. I don't know now, where my website stands. I mean, it's out there. I know people Google it, they find me because they tell me that they find me but I don't pay anyone to do that any longer.

So that's the only marketing that I've done other than doing some marketing at some of the private schools in my area, particularly the one that my daughter goes to because everybody knows me there. I used to teach sewing classes in the lower school. So I know a lot of people not only because I did that, but because they know my daughter and they've gotten to know me, so Get a lot of business from her school. So I have banners hanging on the football field and ads that run on the scoreboard during, the basketball games and the volleyball games and all the sports activities. My business name is out there, my logo and the information both for Atlanta Custom Interiors, and Dorm Suite Dorm. So that's all the marketing. I do the other stuff I do on social media, it doesn't cost anything. It's just time.

Michele  (13:27)  Okay, so some of the barriers again, we're talking about the money for the marketing, right? 

Stacie  (13:34)  Mm-hmm. 

Michele  (13:34)  You are maxed out in your time. 

Stacie  (13:37)  Hmm. 

Michele  (13:38)  And another barrier that I know you mentioned is finding people with the skills to be a seamstress and I mean that's... we got multiple layers here first, we got to be able to hire them, then we got to find them and then we gotta keep them.

Stacie  (13:51)  Right.

Michele  (13:52)  So let's talk about when to hire.

Stacie  (13:54)  Okay. 

Michele  (13:54)  Because that's kind of the three things we're going to look at. So when is a good time to hire? A couple of things and I know that You have worked on this because we've worked on it for years. And I know that you're continually updating it. But we don't need to hire until we have a process in place that we know what it is we're doing, because then we're just hiring confusion if we bring somebody in. And so I know you have a process in place for both the seamstress and the upholstery side of the business, right? 

Stacie  (14:25)  Yes.

Michele  (14:26)  And so if we have a process in place, what we then need to do is look at how maxed out is your current help? Would you say your current... Let's talk about the seamstress side for a minute. Is she maxed out? 

Stacie  (14:40)  Yes. 

Michele  (14:41)  Okay. If you were to bring another person in, who could train them, you or her or the combo, how would you do that?

Stacie  (14:49)  It would be a combination of the two of us for sure. And I've hired people in the past and it's always been a combination of the two of us training them.

Michele  (14:58)  The same, I'm assuming it is gonna be for the upholstery probably a combo as far as here's how the company works. But then I'm sure that your upholstery staff would be the one that would focus primarily on here's the way we do it here or here's the standard at which we do it.

Stacie  (15:13)  Well, you know, and I've hired people before in the upholstery department too and my upholster Benjamin does help a little bit. But for the most part, upholsterers are just different, than seamstresses and they seem to like to work individually. So it's more of me, I think, helping them and giving them the work orders and going over the project and then they do the project in the upholstery department. 

Michele  (15:39)  Okay, so there's probably a little bit more you intensive from what you're saying. 

Stacie  (15:42)  Yes. 

Michele  (15:43)  And you're the one who is setting the standard. This is what it needs to look like to come out of my shop. 

Stacie  (15:48) Yes. 

Michele  (15:49)  So that means for us to be ready to hire just from a staffing perspective. We need to have enough work to sustain the two people that you have and what we have to Have some ability on the calendar to allow you time to work with the new hires and then to work with the new hire. 

Stacie  (16:08)  Right, exactly. 

Michele  (16:09)  And then the process that backs you up. So what I would want you to go build the process if you didn't have it, the good thing is you have all that. All right, the next thing we want to do is let's look at money. How much money do we have for this? And so what I would normally want somebody to do if they are newer positions, and let's say that, they've got some work, but they don't have enough work that they feel like right now to sustain it. I would almost want you to start having two to three months of their salary saved up before we go hire them. 

Stacie  (16:39)  Okay. 

Michele  (16:40)  That's what it's going to take just to get them up to speed on the way you're doing things and what to do. Nobody comes in for the most part and is wildly efficient at the very beginning. So if you know that you need 40 hours a week at you know, $20 an hour, whatever that is. I want you saving at least three months of that If at all possible so that when we hire them, we've got that buffer that allows the marketing to come in to support them. 

Stacie  (17:07)  Okay. 

Michele  (17:07)  Then what I want you to do is think about how much work needs to come in to support both of those positions. So how much work needs to come in to support your main seamstress and your second seamstress and then we could do the same on the upholstery side because we've got a market to get enough work in to consistently keep both busy and to meet the turnaround time to four to six weeks.

Stacie  (17:32)  So would you say that if I went to my profit and loss statement, then I will add this year or if I looked at 2018 just looked at my seamstresses salary?

Michele  (17:42)  Yeah, you could start there.

Stacie  (17:44)  And use that number as the additional employee salary. Plus look at my budget.

Michele  (17:49)  You can look at your payroll for your seamstress right now. 

Stacie  (17:53)  Okay. 

Michele  (17:53)  And look at that payroll for three months 

Stacie  (17:56)  Okay. 

Michele  (17:56)  And say that's what you would need to save financially.

Stacie  (17:59)  That's what I need to save financially, but then I have to put it in my budget for 2020. If I'm going to hire in 2020.

Michele  (18:06)  Correct that same amount all over again, to double it, but what we need to do is then look at what is the income and the amount of product that was sold that she, you sewed and created and fabricated? Because we're going to do we need to double that is that one and a half times because it may be that it's not the full amount again because you don't want to be maxed out again, she's maxed,

Stacie  (18:31)  She's maxed out, I'm farming things out to people that I know and trust.

Michele  (18:35)  Right. So in other words, doubling is just going to over max you again. And so what it maybe is it is one and a half times that income. But if you look at the amount you pay for the subcontractor, that would be the money that would now go internally to the seamstress. 

Stacie  (18:35)  Right? 

Michele  (18:39)  And usually, when you subcontract out, it's going to cost you a little more than if you would pay to have it done in house. 

Stacie  (18:55)  Yes. Agreed. 

Michele  (18:57)  And so that should balance. So I would almost look to see how much you have subcontracted for the year. Have you subcontracted similar or what percentage of your regular seamstress pay? Right? Have you set a contract? So for example, let's say you paid your seamstress just 50,000 a year did you subcontract out 25 within 50% of what you would have paid your seamstress, you've subcontracted that means at a minimum, you could probably if you had that same amount of work again, get somebody to work part-time.

Stacie  (19:27)  Right. 

Michele  (19:27)  And get even more work done... 

Stacie  (19:29)  Okay. 

Michele  (19:30)  ... then what you were able to do by subcontracting. So that's kind of the way I would start to look at that. We just want to have a buffer held back so that you can give them a chance to get in and to learn and understand and for you to get them up to speed on the way your company does it. I've had a workroom I had one for 16 years you've had one for many years. As much as we all learn and do things we don't do them the same in every workroom, there are nuances to what is allowed and not allowed... 

Stacie  (19:58)  Right.

Michele  (19:58)  ...standard of work we do for different things. And so there is a learning curve. 

Stacie  (20:03)  Yes. 

Michele  (20:04)  That's exactly what I would do on the drapery side. Look how much runs through your shop. How much did they actually do? How much did you have to sell out and then we can start to look at it, then what we would want to do is go how much more do I need to bring in to keep this person busy full time, and that's where we want to put our marketing dollars is into the work that will or into the marketing efforts that will bring in work for that seamstress. 

Stacie  (20:30)  Okay.

Michele  (20:30)  You may end up... and the cool thing is with Dorm Suite Dorm and with Atlanta Custom both are going to be on the drapery side, be the work of the seamstress by and large. 

Stacie  (20:41)  Right? 

Michele  (20:42)  Then we can go look at the upholstery side. Okay. And on the upholstery side, this year is a little different. I agree. And I do think we're seeing some shifts and the way people with upholster works versus throw it out and go get more I do think we're seeing that but I think that some conversations are happening out and about that are making people understand, like these frames, I shared on the podcast before I've got my great grandmother's chairs upstairs, those things are so solid that it makes anything that I bought in the last 20 years look like a joke. I mean, it looks like I'm using India or something. I mean and they're not but you know what I'm saying? There are things that are solid.

Stacie  (21:20)  

Yes, certain pieces of furniture are worth recovering. It's just I don't know, it's just, I guess people would say we've quoted a lot of upholstery work, but it hasn't always come in. And I don't know if it's because they've just decided to buy new or if they decided they got a cheaper quote somewhere with somebody else. I mean, there are different variables that it could be but I do see a lot of people just throwing furniture out. I have to stop myself sometimes from stopping on the side of the road and picking it up. You see it...

Michele  (21:53)  And you know what it could be...

Stacie  (21:55)  With the business that I work in and most of my friends say that I go dumpster diving a lot, but it's not dumpsters, this is the side of the road.

Michele  (22:04)  Let's talk about that then that there are a couple of things there. And again, some of the podcasts with Cynthia and Michelle, we talked about the same types of things, I think for upholstery it's a different mindset. Like drapery buy and large. Everything we're doing is a new fabrication. 

Stacie  (22:22)  Yes.

Michele  (22:22)  

New fabrics, new ideas, new designs, fresh, clean, new. But with upholstery, you're not doing, you guys aren't building furniture. You're doing some of that with headboards and things like that.

Stacie  (22:35)  We do get some ottomans that sort of thing.

Michele  (22:38)  Right?

Michele  (22:39)  But when it comes to things like sofas and chairs, we're talking reupholstery. So they've got to love the lines. I got to love the piece. I got to have some investment in the frame. Right?

Stacie  (22:50)  Yeah. So most of the time when people bring their pieces to us, it's because they liked the shape. They liked the size and it's probably an older piece. So furniture that has good bones.

Michele  (23:02)  Right? 

Stacie  (23:02)  And they think it's worth reupholstering. 

Michele  (23:04)  And usually, there could very well be some emotional attachment to it.

Stacie  (23:08)  Yes. 

Michele  (23:09)  Like the chairs up in my room. While I've loved them if I just saw them somewhere and I didn't know that they were my great grandmother's or they didn't have this history. I might think differently about them. But now there's no way I want to get rid of them. Because, Number one, I liked them. They're comfortable. They're pretty, but they tie me back to the family. They feel grounding, like grounding pieces to me, right?

Stacie  (23:33)  Mm-hmm. Because we've been a part of your life.

Michele  (23:36)  Right. And I do have a chair in my den that I don't call it dumpster diving. It’s side road dived.

Stacie  (23:43)  There we go! There's a new term. Side road diving!

Michele  (23:48)  Yeah. And was a house right up for me. And they were having a yard sale. And they stuck this chair out there and it was like $10 or $15. And it was like I don't know where it's from. Like, what year it’s from, but it's one of those super solid. Well, Built. I mean, it was probably 30 years old when I got it, right. 

Stacie  (24:07)  Yes. 

Michele  (24:08)  And I've had it recovered twice. And I've loved the chair. I love everything about it. So let's talk about how to handle that. So there are a couple of components a couple of things I'm thinking about for you. One is, it might be worth going after some of the upholstery quotes that you did not get and ask them. You didn't follow through on this with our company. Could you just let us know? Did you choose to buy new or go somewhere else and have it reupholstered?

Stacie  (24:36)  Okay, yeah. So just follow up and get feedback.

Michele  (24:39)  Yeah, because then we know number one, we're going to find out did they get a different quote, or two? It could be that they were so shocked by the quote because some people think that reupholstery is going to be cheap, but it's going to be not hundreds of dollars that it could have been that they just had sticker shock. So what that then tells us are they doing a comparison between you and another upholstery shop, or are they comparing new to reupholstery. So now we know what you're being compared against right now we don't know, if you haven't followed it up, then we can go through an educational process especially if they are comparing you know, their furniture to new furniture. 

Stacie  (25:17)  Right.

Michele  (25:18)  Or the reupholstery to new we can go through an educational process and just you need to understand you know, this is not inexpensive it is still an investment piece you're going to invest equal to, in most cases, new furniture, so we need to like the bones, we need to do this. We need to like, you know what I'm saying? 

Stacie  (25:36)  Yes. 

Michele  (25:37)  You're giving them information so that you're not out quoting a bunch of stuff that they're all going to have sticker shock over, like, prepare them for it. Like we've learned to prepare our clients for the cost of custom draperies. We've learned how to prepare them for that, it's $1,000 a layer at the window is $2,000 a layer at the window based on what we do and how we do it. I would never tell anybody, you can do a window treatment for a couple of hundred bucks unless you're going to go buy some ready-made something like you're not going to get a custom version of that and not in most cases, not well-done custom. 

Stacie  (26:10)  Right. No, you can't.

Michele  (26:12)  And the same thing is true with a chair. And with a sofa. If you're finding then that what they're doing is they're comparing you against a competitor, at least you know that and then you can look at your price and compare to competitor pricing, and you can see, you know how close you are. Maybe they offer something you don't maybe it's free pickup and delivery where you charge for pickup and delivery, you can just start to see what it is they're comparing apples and apples are apples and oranges and then you can make decisions on is this viable, that you want to keep it.

Stacie  (26:42)  Okay. 

Michele  (26:43)  Is it something that you want to compete? How do you want to compete and, who are you even competing against, and I think that's important to note, especially before I would bring in another upholster. The other thing could be that just like with anything, we go through waves of things I remember back in 2010 11 and 12, that the courses that we had CHF Academy that were reupholstery based, we could not offer enough for the people that were coming through. They wanted those classes. The classes were old, they sold out immediately. There have been other years where we had upholstery classes, and we might have two people show up. There were six and eight people. And we were like capping the class because we couldn't do anymore.

Stacie  (27:25)  Well, and I do think that it has to do with the market for sure. And with the economy, because in those years that you were talking about, we were just coming out of the recession. 

Michele  (27:36)  Correct. 

Stacie  (27:36)  And people weren't buying new stuff. They were keeping their items and they were recovering them at that time. And while it might not have been cheaper to do it that way. I think that in their minds, they thought it was the best thing to do because going out and buying new in a bad economy.

Michele  (27:57)  It felt more frugal.

Stacie  (27:58)  Yes. There you are. It felt more frugal. And now that the economy is thriving, and we hope it continues to, however, there are discussions about another recession. But, I think that a lot of people are not being frugal.

Michele  (28:13)  Right, they're looking at they have the luxury to spend. So. let's spend. Okay, so here's another twist on that, though. What in many cases, we also know on the upholstery side that they're doing is they're buying new and is not anywhere near as nicely made as what they have to recover. So then that is a different conversation about the price to price, but then there's the sub conversation about quality and value in quality and value. 

Stacie  (28:39)  Yes. 

Michele  (28:40)  And getting what you want in a calm fabric, right customers own material getting those things what you want. So if you can ask some of those questions that people that have not followed through, I think you'll start to get some information on your marketing message and how to market it. And what to say it may also be honestly out of sight out of mind if you've not marketed it. And while people forget that it's a service you offer, right because you're Atlanta Custom Interiors, they're so used to maybe associating that with window treatments that they forgot that that's what you offer, concerning upholstery. So I know there are so many people today who say, I wish we could just go back to tell a friend what you do and all the work comes in. I mean, that's the way my business grew.

Stacie  (29:29)  Yeah.

Michele  (29:30)  I was laughing. I'm like, I remember the days 20 something years ago, my biggest question was, should I be in the yellow pages or not? Right? Should I just make an ad to get Yellow Pages and be done? We didn't have websites, we didn't have any of this jazz. And so now though, we have to be in front of everything we've got to market to what we want. We got a market around what we don't want.

Stacie  (29:54)  Well, and that is an interesting point that you make and I have had people it's interesting. When people come into my business, for one thing, say they come in for drapes, and they're talking to me about new drapes for their home, and they just happened to mention well I have this chair that was my grandmother's and I need to look for an upholster to recover this chair and I go oh well, upholster is right there working like my workroom is open where everybody can see everybody. Well, we do upholstery work as well. My sign says draperies and upholstery but it's funny because they come in and their one-track mind is focused on draperies and they don't even realize that we do upholstery or they come in for upholstery. And they don't realize that we do draperies however they're standing in the drapery workroom.

Michele  (30:48)  Because many times we come in and we're focused on what the biggest pain is right now. And maybe that's a conversation, a sales conversation and upsell conversation with every single person that calls. Alright I know You've called us to come out to your house to measure your drapes. I also want to let you know we offer upholstery services. Do you have any pieces of furniture you would like for us to look at while we come out?

Stacie  (31:09)  That's a good idea. I've never done that.

Michele  (31:11)  Yep. And converse with them. Okay, you want us to recover this sofa. We also offer custom window treatments. Would you like to consider replacing any window treatments or soft furnishings in the room where you are going to have this piece of furniture recovered because it might not go? Right. So what if you tried no matter what they called...

Stacie  (31:34)  Just cross-marketing every job. 

Michele  (31:36)  Cross offering, it's about making the offer because you're creating that awareness. Oh, wow. You do both. Is there something else you want us to do? We do multiple things concerning soft furnishings. So what else could we do while we're in that space?

Stacie  (31:51)  Well, and it's interesting because I just did that on a job. Back in October, we were helping with a lady doing window treatments in two of her rooms. And she kept talking about this fabric that she had picked for her chairs and the fabric that she'd picked for her sofa. And I said, Can I just ask you a question? And she was like, sure. And also to who is doing the chairs and the sofas? And she said, Well, I'm not sure. I said, Okay. Can I get pictures of them and quote them for you? And she said, Sure, I'll send you pictures. We got the job. We've quoted it. We got the job. So that's an interesting point.

Michele  (32:29)  Yeah, I think sometimes we don't get the sales because we don't ask for the sale. And so it's letting them know, here's what we had. And most people want to do one-stop shopping Stacie. 

Stacie  (32:41)  She was so excited. She was so happy to have it all in one place. 

Michele  (32:46)  So they want to come in. Well, it's going to match the craftsmanship is going to go together. You know, you're going to understand if you put a pattern on it's going to go in the same direction with what you're doing. But most people like to just trust that you're taking care of all of that, right? So if I need blinds, I'm going to come to you, if I want Roman shades, I'm going to come to you if I want draperies, I'm going to come to you. If I need bedding, I'll come to you. And if I need upholstery, I'm going to come to you because you're going to do the headboard. And you're going to do the chase at the foot of the bed, and you're going to recover the sofa in the sitting room, right? Or the loveseats are two chairs or whatever that I have. 

Stacie  (33:20)  Right.

Michele  (33:21)  Why would I not come to you? But if I think of you, because my main interaction with you has been because I looked at window treatments or because I looked up upholstery. I'm not going to think about the cross-pollination, if you will, of opportunity here. So it's up to you and your sales staff to offer it to them.

Stacie  (33:40)  Yeah. Many people around the country do what I do. And they have both the soft treatment side and the upholstery side. But I guess the majority of workrooms are either one or the other. I don't think there's a lot of combos, like me out there. So yeah, I guess we sometimes get in our own way. And don't toot our own horn. I'm not very good at that.

Michele  (34:04)  Or we assume that they read the sign on the front of the building. Like you said that it's out there. We know it's there. But we know it, they are just coming in thinking I've heard about Atlanta Custom for drapes, maybe the person who referred them didn't refer them for upholstery or vice versa. So it's not on their mind that thought is I'm just I've got somebody for drapes, let me just go for that. Then I'll go find somebody for upholstery, you don't see what you don't see if you don't know you're supposed to be looking there. It's kind of like that whole awareness idea that we've talked about before that once you buy a new car, you now see every one of them on the street. 

Stacie  (34:41)  Yeah.

Michele  (34:41)  Three days before you bought that car if you weren't looking at that...

Stacie  (34:44)  You didn't see it.

Michele  (34:46)  But now all of a sudden, that's the car that you see. And it's the same thing with this awareness. Once they understand that Atlanta Custom does this and this and they do this and this for me, then that's where I'm going to go for those two things or to solve those two problems. So we just need to cross tell them. So do you see what I mean? You're raising awareness to them so that now they see it and they start to understand. Always ask, think about like when you go out to a restaurant and you order let's say a baked potato and they're like, would you like butter bacon and sour cream or would you like chives, they're asking you all these add ons I went out the other night ordered a steak and the first thing they asked me was, would you like peppers and onions? Or would you like to add on mushrooms their additional fees and I was like, I don't care how much they are. Give me the mushrooms. But they gave me the chance to add on. That's what I'm saying. Part of that is the best easy marketing and didn't cost you anything except for your thought process to go to always be marketing. Always be selling, always be up-selling, always be offering what you have. They're just coming in with whatever pain they have at that moment. 

Stacie  (35:50)  Okay. 

Michele  (35:51)  Okay. 

Stacie  (35:52)  Yep. 

Michele  (35:52)  So a couple of things we're going through here. We're going to save three months of salary to be able to pay these people. I want you to go back and like you said great idea. Look at the p&l. Let's see how much came in to support the seamstress side of things. The soft furnishing side, how much you outsource? And how much would that have paid already, if the same amount of work was to come in what additional marketing might need to makeup, the additional for a full-time person on the upholstery side, we need to understand why they didn't come through and then cross-market both of them all the time, then what we can do is look at all that's kind of the I would say the easier marketing pieces and the easier pieces then we can look at Okay, so now how do we need to market? Do I need to market two-thirds of the time so furnishings and the third upholstery or for the next quarter doesn't need to be two-thirds upholstery and one third over here? So you don't have to have the same percentage every time it could be for this quarter. Here's what we're focusing on this quarter. Here's where we're focusing based on what's coming in or how people are responding to what you have. We also can't be afraid of spending some money to market. Let me ask you this, if you're going to give me $8, I'm going to give you 100. Would you want to make that exchange? 

Stacie  (37:08)  Well, yeah, I'm making money. Right?

Michele  (37:11)  Right. $92? 

Michele  (37:12)  I like that. Right. I'd like to be on your side of that. That's saying that you have a marketing budget of 8%. 

Stacie  (37:12)  Yeah, I like that.

Stacie  (37:20)  Okay. 

Michele  (37:21)  And that says I'm willing to pay $8 to get a client if I'm going to make $92 on it.

Stacie  (37:26)  I've never really thought about where I need to market my upholstery. I mean, of course, I'm market, like I said, at the private school, where I have my ads and things going on, but I've never really thought about where to just market upholstery.

Michele  (37:43)  So let me ask this. Do we have any low hanging fruit for example? One way to do it is to go after the designers that already use your services for all of the window treatments because many of the times the designers are the ones who know which pieces should and shouldn't be... 

Stacie  (37:58)  Yes. 

Michele  (37:59)  Reholster Or there's a piece that they love in the space that it is or they understand that it's grandma's chair. And they know that the fabric that's on it is not going to work with their new design. That's one place is to go in and educate the designers that are already working with you, because they're already bringing you to work. Right? 

Stacie  (38:16)  Yeap. 

Michele  (38:16)  And it's a bit more steady Eddie, then, like you said, the random homeowner who could walk in and out the door.

Stacie  (38:22)  And I would say that the designers that I've worked with for the last eight to 10 years, bring me all their upholstery work. That being said, I do have a lot of new designers that have found me this year. And I feel sure that I have cross-marketing both sides of the business, but I could probably send them some more information about the upholstery side.

Michele  (38:43)  Right? I mean, and I would even go into even more detail. Here are the types of things we do custom headboards, custom benches, custom Ottomans, we recovered this and this, here are some examples of our work. Have a question? Let us help you and make it easy for them. Sometimes they don't think about it because maybe again, they've used your services primarily for window treatments, and it just didn't stick because it's not what they needed at the time. So we want to go back to when they need it.

Stacie  (39:16)  And also it couldn't be that they're new to me. And maybe I'll replace their old window treatment workroom, and they have another upholster that they used in the past.

Michele  (39:27)  It might.  Just let them know we're a one-stop-shop. We do both of these, we'd love to quote, we'd love to help you with your needs. If they don't need it, they don't need it. But if they do...

Stacie  (39:38)  It doesn't hurt to tell them.

Michele  (39:40)  That's right. But if they do, they do. And you never know they could end up with say they had a different upholster somebody can be ill, can be sick, they could be eight months out, they could have all kinds of other scaling issues that we've talked about. And you have a team that could jump in and help. So I think there's a lot of opportunities there. I would love to see you have a packet of information for your trade sources that say here are all the services that we offer to you. Because you offer a lot. That's a trade-only that is not retail. And I would love to see you have a one-sheet document or a small info packet or something that you're handing out to those trade resources. It says, Here's everything that we do on the custom, the soft furnishing side, here's everything we do on the hard treatment side. And here's everything we do on the upholstery side. You were even telling me in our mastermind group that you went out to measure for a client that turned around and had another company come into a measure or it was for a designer. You went in to measure for a designer for soft furnishings, and he or she had brought in another company to measure for blinds shades and shutters and they didn't even connect the fact that you did both. 

Stacie  (40:49)  Yes, correct. 

Michele  (40:50)  Right. So that tells me right there there's a disconnect. It is very awkward because I brought him in at the same time, which looks if anybody's listening and you need to do multiples, please unless its commercial, like get it on a residential, don't bring them all in... 

Stacie  (41:05)  Not at the same time... 

Michele  (41:06)  ...at the same time and don't bring them in where they pass in the driveway. It's awkward for everybody.

Stacie  (41:11)  Well, and not only were we there, I mean, but we were also in the master bedroom in the master bathroom together. What? I mean it was just weird. It was very, very weird.

Michele  (41:19)  But that does tell me that there is some lack of understanding in all the services that you provide. And so how can we solve that? It may be that your marketing is on trying to get this welcome packet.

Stacie  (41:32)  Yeah.

Michele  (41:33)  Making sure that you hand it out and that that is kind of like your calling card when you meet these new designers. Hey, look at what we have to offer to the trade. Look how we're here to support you here are all the things that we do for you and we're not just an upholstery shop are not just your hard treatment or not just soft furnishings we do all of it for you. And I am telling you the designers out there many of them we know have not had in-depth training at the window or even with reupholstery type things, they need those resources. They want those resources. They're clamoring for those resources. And so you just putting it out there for them, instead of assuming that they remember the conversation when they had a one-track focus. Sometimes we think, Stacie, you mentioned not wanting to toot your own horn. And I've been very, this has been something that I haven't been great at either. But it's that idea. I've already mentioned to you once that I do this. And if I tell you a second time, it's like I'm being rude or like I'm browbeating you or like I'm forcing you. And it's not true at all. Like it's a story we tell ourselves. Right? 

Stacie  (42:36)  Right. 

Michele  (42:37)  And I think well, gosh, I've already told everybody I offered that like, why would I need to tell them again, but I'm learning more and more is because if they didn't need it at that moment...

Stacie  (42:45)  Right.

Michele  (42:46)  ...it might not have stuck. When we need it, we look for it and then it sticks and for years I had people say to me, oh my gosh, I didn't know you did that. Oh my gosh. You know you make quilts. Oh gosh, and I was like 14 quilts on my friends. Facebook page at the time and I'm like, Okay, well, but when they needed it, then they looked for it. And so that's what I want you to do is I want you to think I'm not overdoing it. I'm saying it until when they need it. They hear it and it clicks.

Stacie  (43:14)  Well, and I guess I love this. I guess when I kept thinking about spending money on marketing, I kept thinking that it was going to cost me thousands of dollars, but what we just talked about, if I'm putting together an information packet, for my designers, that's not going to cost a whole lot of money.

Michele  (43:32)  Right? It's going to cost time and process.

Stacie  (43:35)  But it's not going to take a whole lot of money to do that.

Michele  (43:38)  Right. 

Stacie  (43:39)  And it's something that you're right, I can just hand it to them. I can mail it to them. I can mail it out to all my designers, I can email it whatever.

Michele  (43:47)  Another thought I have with that is a quarterly newsletter to your designers that says hey, just a reminder, we do this, this, this and this month we're focusing on or this quarter, we're focused like let's say that you know that there's one quarter that slow for upholstery and less head there's a different quarter that is, the slower for self furnishings, you could say to your designers were slow or this is the month that we're focusing on upholstery, did you have anything we're given an extra 5% off or we're doing an extra... we're throwing in pickup in deliberate like you could do something market. 

Stacie  (44:22)  Right. 

Michele  (44:22)  Right. And I'm throwing in air quotes that only you and I can see. But really what we're doing is we're pushing that particular product or service during a time where it is traditionally lower because we want to raise it to keep your people busy. And so it just like when we work with I mentioned this on one of the other podcasts when you work with Helzer Brothers or you work with some of these other great, Kravid or Drily or Greenhouse or whoever picked a company and fill in the blank. Many of them will work with you to have a month where you can run a special on their item to bring in work. You can use that for soft furnishing and you can use that for upholstering. Hey, here's the month 10% off your fabric choice and we can reupholster, or make window treatments, boom. And that can be good for designers and retail-based on where they're buying their fabric and what they're doing. So use your resources, it won't cost you a lot, except for pushing out the idea of here's what you're doing. Then when you market you want to market, of course, we're marketing to the trade, but your trade people are also watching you on Instagram and Facebook in case they don't open the email. So you put it out on Instagram and you put it out on Facebook and you send them an email and you can you know, if you get a handful of 20 to 30, you can mail it to them. You can mail a flyer that they open so you can put it in their hand's multiple ways. Here's the other thing that I'll tell you about the mistake we make. We think that if again, we say it in one way, they've got it. Well, I sent them an email. I can't even tell you how many times people go I didn't open that email. I remember I used to think about what I have to do tattooed on my head for them to read it like come on, but it's true. So, We’re Busy, everybody's busy. And so sometimes... 

Stacie  (46:02)  And you get so many emails in your inbox every day. 

Michele  (46:05)  Yes. So sometimes they need to see it by email and then see it on Instagram and go oh, yeah, that's right. Or see it in a story on Instagram, which is different than the Instagram feed, and then see it on Facebook, and then they go, I forgot all about that. But now I need to act. So I say that because I don't want you to, again at like, even through social media, I said at once I'm done, I want you to say it, you're gonna think you're over saying it. They're going to hear whatever they need to hear.

Stacie  (46:32)  And maybe they'll hear and when they need to hear it. 

Michele  (46:34)  Right. 

Stacie  (46:35)  At one of those times. 

Michele  (46:37)  Exactly. And it would be lovely if they acted every single time. I mean, Isn't that everybody's dream? I market to my ideal client and they all respond immediately. 

Stacie  (46:48)  Yes.

Michele  (46:49)  What we just need a subset of them to respond on time to keep you moving. It's not as many as we think sometimes.

Stacie  (46:59)  This was great. Thank you so much.

Michele  (47:01)  You're welcome. I'm excited to hear what you're going to do. I mean, think about my gosh, you offer such a huge service. I don't want to hop off without having at least a two-second conversation about Dorm Suite Dorm.

Stacie  (47:13)  Oh, okay. 

Michele  (47:14)  Because that one is... 

Stacie  (47:16)  Yeah, it kind of gets left behind a little bit, because it's my new business. And it's not my main business. Does that make sense?

Michele  (47:24)  It does. So we've got to pull it into the main business. 

Stacie  (47:28)  Yes. 

Michele  (47:29)  Yeah. So we're going to pull it in as part of the main business. It's new and you're integrating it is really what we're saying here. So what I want you to do on that one is to go back and think about when is the right time that people are thinking about dorm stuff like we're getting ready January, February, March, March, April, May, because everybody is starting in this new year, they're going to start I remember when both of my kids were in college in February was when we had to put down the deposit on their dorm room, and they're going to start sending us stuff by May when they've kind of made their final decision may in June... April, May and June, we're going to start getting those flyers that tell us that we can now start getting our dorm stuff together. And so that's what I want you to start thinking about that is that when we start promoting it, promote it to your designers, maybe they can offer something for their clients that have...

Stacie  (48:19)  That's an idea. They see. I mean, most of our designers come at some point.

Michele  (48:26)  But if they don't know what it is, and what it means to them... 

Stacie  (48:30)  Right. 

Michele  (48:30)  Make it easy for them to go in and say, Hey, would you like to?... Who wouldn't like to say they had a designer that helped build a dorm room because it doesn't have to be super expensive, but it's an offering that they can then put out to their clients? So maybe find a way not only to speak to your retail client, of course. 

Stacie  (48:47)  Right. 

Michele  (48:48)  Right. The moms who are going to come in and help buy for their daughters or their sons but also to the designers who are serving as if they did the whole bedroom for the teen daughter at home. They're certainly probably going to be asked about information to move them to college. So give them the tool to have in their toolbox. 

Stacie  (49:06)  Okay. So should I include that in my information packet?

Michele  (49:10)  Absolutely. Because it's a service that you offer, and they need to know that you're there to support them supporting their clients. The whole goal when you go to trade is that you were there to support them doing what they need to do. 

Stacie  (49:21)  Okay.

Michele  (49:22)  You're there to help select, you're there to help collaborate, there to help support it, whatever they need to look good in front of that client. That's what you're there to do. 

Stacie  (49:31)  Okay. 

Michele  (49:32)  And here are the ways that we do it.

Michele  (49:33)  Yeah, I have to say I have not incorporated that part of my business into any of my correspondence.

Michele  (49:41)  Low hanging fruit, Hello.

Stacie  (49:43)  With my clients, and I suppose that I could even take the mailing list that I have of my retail clients and just send them a newsletter or send them information about Dorm Suite Dorm.

Michele  (49:56)  Hey, look at what we do now. Do you have a son, a daughter, a granddaughter in need? Nephew? A friend or neighbor? Yeah, don't miss the gold that you have in front of you, which is those that are already working with you. It is so much easier. It costs you seven times more to get a new client to sell to than to resell to a client you already have. So but we're talking about spending your marketing dollars and making them go further, we get to start with the ones that are already engaged with you. 

Stacie  (50:21)  Okay. 

Michele  (50:22)  Okay. I just didn't want to end this call and not talk about that.

Stacie  (50:27)  Yeah, that's great.

Michele  (50:28)  Is there anything else I can help you with? Or do you feel like you got some actionable ways to move forward?

Stacie  (50:33)  I have lots of actionable things to do. And while it's busy right now, I am going to take some downtime and be away for the week of Thanksgiving. So maybe I can start working on a few things even before the first of the year so we can hit the ground running. 

Michele  (50:50)  I love it. 

Stacie  (50:51)  After the holiday crazies over.

Michele  (50:52)  I hear ya. Well Stacie, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your business challenge and letting us talk through it and brainstorm some ways to move you forward. This is what we do all the time and the mastermind groups and the inner circle and I love it so much. 

Stacie  (51:06)  It is. 

Michele  (51:07)  I know and I love this so much because as Napoleon Hill says the mastermind is actually when more than one mind gets together that this bigger idea, this mastermind is created. And so that's why I think it is such an awesome opportunity to talk to somebody instead of always trying to figure it out by ourselves. I heard it said one time you can't read the packaging on the bottle from inside the bottle.

Stacie  (51:32)  Oh.

Michele  (51:32) Right. 

Stacie  (51:33)  Right. 

Michele  (51:33)  So sometimes you gotta be pulled out of the bottle to look at it. You gotta get out of your circumstances to look at it. Otherwise, you're seeing it with the same mindset that created where you are. So I appreciate you letting me look in and pull you out and look at things differently today.

Stacie  (51:48)  Yeah, absolutely. It was fun. 

Michele  (51:50)  Thank you. Good. I'm glad you enjoyed it. So Stacie, tell people where they can find you on Instagram, Facebook, where you're hanging out.

Stacie  (51:55)  Okay, so well because I have two businesses and two of everything. So you can find me on Facebook at Atlanta Custom Interiors, and Dorm Suite Dorm and the same on Instagram.

Michele  (52:07)  Perfect. And we'll have all that in the show notes too so they can look below and find you.

Stacie  (52:12)  I'm not out there very much. I need to get better at posting things. Just not enough time. 

Michele  (52:17)  Well, you will now that we have a new marketing idea here.

Stacie  (52:19)  Yes.

Michele  (52:23)  Well, I hope it works for you. And I'm looking forward to catching up with you later and seeing how it all turns out. 

Stacie  (52:29)  Okay, sounds good. 

Michele  (52:30)  Take care. 

Stacie  (52:31)  Alright, bye. 

Michele  (52:32)  Bye. 

Michele  (52:33)  Thank you, Stacie, for sharing your journey and for being open to look at your challenge differently. We all have these challenges, whether it's marketing, financial, or hiring based, and scaling doesn't mean the same thing to each of us and the Designers Inner Circle, but the goal is to help each business owner create the business that works for them. And that can mean that you show up a little bit differently. We would love to help you do the same. Check out the Designers Inner Circle on ScarletThreadConsulting.com for more information, let us help you become more profitable by choice. Profit doesn't happen by accident.